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2016-2017 rules discussion

DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055
edited September 2016 in Salary Cap League
This discussion was created from comments split from: 2016-2017 Trade Block and Official Trades.
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Comments

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904
    edited September 2016

    I don't think that trade between nykos and Rockchalk is legal. You're only allowed to trade draft picks in the next 3 drafts, so the 2019 picks are not tradeable until after the current draft.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 252

    If needed, I can send @Nykos my 2018 2nd rounder to make the trade legal for this season, then we can swap 2019 1st rounders after the draft.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055
    edited September 2016

    While technically nykos should've picked who rockchalk wanted and then made this deal right after the draft, I really don't see a point with rescinding the trade. They would just announce the trade right after the draft if we did reverse it.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904

    I agree, just thought I'd point it out for the new guys. That said, I think we should be able to trade future picks beyond 3 years anyway.

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    2019 picks should be eligible for trade right now...it's 2020 which aren't.

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    Remember, it's the next three years, NOT INCLUDING this year...so , 2017, 2018, 2019. 2020 is ineligible.

    Thus, legal trade as is.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904

    I disagree with those semantics, but don't care either way. Since there are picks that have yet to be drafted in 2016 still, it should be assumed that 'the next 3 drafts' include the current one. Either way I think we should change it to 5 or 6 years and clarify the rulebook at some point.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 252

    Sorry for the confusion guys. I blame @nykos.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    My pick 1.13 goes to Dvauthrin for his 2019 1st.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    Available:

    Buddy Hield (3.25, 3.5, TO 3.75, TO 4)
    2.11
    2.13

    Not too picky on offers for any of them, most likely. Willing to trade picks (and Hield) for future picks.

    Also:

    Chris Paul (18.5, 18.5, 18.5) is available.

    -DR

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904

    So are we now saying that current draft year is not included in the 3-year rule? Cause I'm pretty sure this wasn't allowed in the past. I thought we were just ignoring it for the previous trades already made above. Does that mean now we can start trading 3rd year draft picks as soon as the rookie draft begins? I think we should have an official rule change before everyone starts trading 2019s, no?

  • nykosnykos Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 461

    come on cap....

    • we are doing the 2016 draft, so we can assume 2019 will be included in the discussions in upcoming days & hours...
    • but I still agree we cannot trade forever in advance picks as we don't want someone to trade all his assets & burn his team & leave the league...
  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    dvauthrin and I mutually agreed to roll back our trade for now in case of any confusion

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    DaRuhl still owns pick 1.13 and for now, if you want to trade 2019 picks for players in this year's draft, just have the other owner pick the players you want and make the trade official after the draft. We'll have dasein make an official rule change.

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    Well, just clarify the rule. Like I said, I made that pick swap deal with him as the draft was in progress, and I'm sure he wouldn't have worked up those conditions all the way out to 2019 if he didn't think it was legal. Hello, same dasein we're talking about here.

    Just have him clarify the rule.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904

    Nykos, I really don't care either way, but I'm pretty sure we didn't allow this in the past so I just wanted it to be clear. We shouldn't just assume that because the draft will be over soon it's fine to include 2019s. That is introducing a whole new set of assets to a trade and could be the difference in a trade getting accepted or not. The way I see it, the rules state "the next 3 drafts", and "this" draft is not a "next" draft, so the trades aren't legal. Like DV said, if you want to trade 2019s now then it has to be done privately, and one guy will have to pick for the other guy and the trade should be made after the draft.

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    Sorry to go back and forth with you on this one Cap, but WHAT?!?!

    " The way I see it, the rules state "the next 3 drafts", and "this" draft is not a "next" draft, so the trades aren't legal."

    So, if this draft is NOT a "next" draft, then we're talking 2017, 2018, and 2019, right? So that means any trades done during THIS draft assume the "NEXT THREE" drafts are 2017, 2018, and 2019.

    Where are we getting that 2019 picks have to be traded AFTER this draft? THIS draft is the 2016-17 draft. The "NEXT THREE" are 2017, 2018 and 2019.

  • TheRobSaysTheRobSays Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 392

    Semantics. So long as you are done with the season then I agree as you can simply make the trade right after the draft for the same result. Also as soon as this draft is done then 2019 becomes one of the next 3 years and hence you can include this in regular trades as well (those not including draft picks). We can clarify but let common sense prevail and lets get the draft done so we can start the real fun.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 904
    edited September 2016

    Hang on, let me have another beer, I think I confused myself again. What I meant is that until "this" draft is done the "next" one is not pending, so 2019 isn't in the 3-year window yet. Right, it's just semantics, but I think we should still clarify, for rules' sake, and timelines.

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,001

    I love waking up to these 10,000 word "discussions".

    As nykos said, the purpose of the rule is to stop some dickhead messing up the league by trading away his future and then quitting. It's our version of the Stepian rule.

    I don't think it matters all that much whether 2019 picks can be traded during the current draft or not, but clarity is good so how about we say you can't trade picks for drafts that will occur outside of the 3 calendar years following the current year.

    Also, can we keep these discussions to the discussion thread and leave all the other for what they are intended.

  • KiireKiire Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 182

    I can not find the rules for this league. Is there a link somewhere? Specially the salary base looks a bit different, so would like to know minimum raise, minimum BYS etc

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055
  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    The spreadsheet, rules and FA schedule can all be found here: http://fantasybasketballcafe.com/discussion/50/important-doc-links/p1

  • TheRobSaysTheRobSays Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 392

    What is the time limit for second round - still 24 hours? We need to get the draft over :(

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    Yes, it is. Jim made his pick at 9.03 PM central last night so DaRuhl has 6 more hours to pick.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    Since we need to get the FA auctions started as the season is a month away, we will start the first group at 12:01 AM central tonight, regardless whether the Rookie draft is completed first or not. The FA schedule can be found in the league spreadsheet.

    For the new guys, a couple of points:

    1) You must hold the winning bid for 12 hours to win a player in the offseason, and the minimum salary in the league is .5M.

    2) Max raises or decreases in salary are 10% of the first year salary of the contract. If it's your own FA that you have bird rights on, max raises or decreases are 15% of the first year salary, and you can opt to match the leading bid on your player at any time. If you choose to match the bid, you do have the right to restructure the contract, as long as the years and total contract value stay the same.

    3) On RFA's: The owner of the restricted FA has 24 hours to match the winning bid on the player.

    4) Contracts less than 5M per year can only be for 1 or 2 years, contracts between 5 and 9.99M in yearly salary can go up to 3 years, and those 10M or greater in salary can go up to 4 years in length.

    5) The minimum bid increments:

    0.2M: contracts of 1-2 years, yearly salary between .5M and 4.99M
    1M, contracts of 1-3 years, yearly salary between 5M and 9.99M
    2M: contracts of 1-4 years, yearly salary 10M and up

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask, but also check the league rules, which can be found in the important documents thread.

  • KiireKiire Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 182

    Is matching the highest bid for your own FA considered as a new bid?

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    Yes. You have 12 hours to match the top bid (if you have bird rights on your own FA), but then your bid has to stand for 12 hours without being beaten.

    The only case where a match ends the auction right then is in RFA, where the owner of the player matches the winning bid within 24 hours. And just like with bird rights, the owner of the RFA can restructure the winning bid they match as long as years and contract value remain the same.

  • KiireKiire Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 182

    Some players are RFA? Will check that part :)

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    The ones in blue on the FA schedule are RFA. On the salary soreadsheet their names are highlighted in green.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 252

    How are bird rights players indicated?

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    We really have never indicated that on the spreadsheet. They would be your FA's that had at least 2 year contracts, and never were waived during the life of their contract.

    On your team, you have bird rights on Ellis, Alex Len, Olynyk, Jeff Green and Solomon Hill.

  • salvadorsalvador Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 111

    Who will create the Discussion Board for the FAs to be auctioned?

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    There won't be a board. Each player will have their own thread where bids are made.

  • salvadorsalvador Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 111
  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    Minimum player salary is .5M

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    Also, for everyone's reference.

    For three year contracts, the minimum salary per year has to be at least 5M. For 4 year deals, it has to be at least 10M. So a 10, 9, 8, 7 four year bid is illegal.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    sorry guys for the slow pick. continuing to travel today and tomorrow and then things slow down so I should suck less...

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    For next season, I'd like to propose we consider whether you should be able to buyout a 2nd round pick in-season using just the cost of their current season (i.e. assuming the future TO years are not guaranteed).

    Admittedly, we'd have to think about consistency issues with other types of contracts.

    But, right now, it's a better deal to cut my 2nd rounder before the season and sign someone on a 0.5 or 0.5 / 0.5 contract than it is to gamble on my 2nd rounder b/c they are more expensive to buyout. This feels like a bit lame and another reason why 2nd rounders are pretty much worthless.

    Thanks!

    -DR

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,001

    @DaRuhl said:
    For next season, I'd like to propose we consider whether you should be able to buyout a 2nd round pick in-season using just the cost of their current season (i.e. assuming the future TO years are not guaranteed).

    Admittedly, we'd have to think about consistency issues with other types of contracts.

    But, right now, it's a better deal to cut my 2nd rounder before the season and sign someone on a 0.5 or 0.5 / 0.5 contract than it is to gamble on my 2nd rounder b/c they are more expensive to buyout. This feels like a bit lame and another reason why 2nd rounders are pretty much worthless.

    Thanks!

    -DR

    As stated in the other thread, that is how it works now.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 252

    Is max roster size 16? According to the spreadsheet, @dasein currently has 17 players.

    Is it just 16 by the time the season starts? Or is max 16 at all times?

  • nykosnykos Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 461

    16 by the season start

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    @rockchalk said:
    Is max roster size 16? According to the spreadsheet, @dasein currently has 17 players.

    Is it just 16 by the time the season starts? Or is max 16 at all times?

    You can go above 16 in the offseason. Think of it like training camp. Before the first regular season NBA game is played, you can bring as many guys into camp that you want,but once the real games start, rosters have to be cut to 15(in our case it's 16)

  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 178

    So i just wanted to clarify that international players don't count against the cap or 16 roster size until they come over. That's how I read the rules since 2.0 section of rules say that when the international player starts playing in the NBA, "his rookie contract begins at year one. All other roster rules must be met at this time".

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,001

    They don't count against the cap but they do take a roster spot.

    And I have 17 because Tucker had not been removed from my roster following the trade.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 1,055

    @dasein said:
    They don't count against the cap but they do take a roster spot.

    And I have 17 because Tucker had not been removed from my roster following the trade.

    Dasein's roster is now at 16. I forgot to remove Tucker from it when updating the spreadsheet.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555
    edited October 2016

    Is there any possibility of re-opening LaMarcus? I was planning to bid on him, but didn't realize the prior bids were illegal so thought he had not expired. It's been way less than 12 hours since the last bid (albeit illegal) and since the bids were declared illegal.

    Also, I was not one of the illegal bidders, and in fact the current winner is (not arguing for disqualification, just for re-opening).

    Thanks for considering!

    -DR

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    Arent we suppose to base the BYS on rockchalks bid which is 9.6 which is the previous bid and not my 11.2?

    We need to move this off the auction thread...mods, please clean up the LMA auction thread if possible.

    I guess maybe we need clarification on this as well, but I always understood that it's your own bid which needs to follow the requirements.

    Using your bid as an example, 11.2 falls under the 10M BYS threshold...therefore, it needs to follow the requirements of that threshold. If your bid's BYS was still under 10M, regardless of how many years were on the contract, it would fall under the 1M increment requirement. If we all followed the preceding bid's BYS, then we would have all sorts of "weird" contracts which fell on the borderlines of those thresholds.

    Those thresholds are hard borders meant for bidding...it makes sense to me, if it was your bid to hit the 10M+ threshold, that it follow that particular set of requirements. Thus, your bid needs to be at least 1M more than rock's to count.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 555

    Sorry, cross-posted on the LMA thread as this was being posted.

    Agree it's a bit unclear, but in this case also rockchalk's BYS is above 10, so it's not relevant in this case.

    -DR

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 200

    It may not be relevant, but it's a good example...

    The fact that his bid goes in decrements, from 12 to 9.6 in three years doesn't affect the bid increase at all. Since his BYS was 12M, yes, any other increase has to be by 2M or more.

    And I apologize, got the bid increase requirement wrong in my last post...it should be 2M, not 1M.

    But having said that, had rock's contract gone the OTHER way, from 9.6 to 12, then HE would have fallen under the 1M increment threshold. Therefore, HIS bid, (9.6, 10.8, 12) would have had to beat the preceding bid by 1M. Whoever came in AFTER rock, COULD beat his bid by 1M, as long as their BYS stayed under 10M. Once the 10M mark is broken, the bid increment MUST be 2M.

    But again, as you said, it's irrelevant in this case, as rock had already broken the 10M threshold.

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