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2016 Waives, Buyouts, etc

2

Comments

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 167

    Yes, you are correct. Had to go back and double check everything.

    The Jeremy Lamb cap hold was supposed to be included in the last trade I did with dasein...however, he didn't include it in the post, and I confirmed it as it was. But, I don't believe I made it clear to begin with (to include Lamb as well), so it's on me. No biggie...I'll take it back on my books at the adjusted numbers you posted.

    One other thing I did note, I noticed you have the Middleton IPE at 1.44, whereas I did the math and I'm coming out with 1.43...not that .01 is going to break my bank or anything...just wanted to make note that it's within that margin of error there. ;)

  • TheRobSaysTheRobSays Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 323

    Waive Henry Ellenson. .38 cap hit for this year only.

  • silentjimsilentjim Member, Moderator, Commish - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League, League - Battle of the Sports Forums Posts: 519 mod

    Waiving Papagiannis

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Waive Afflalo.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Waive Hibbert.

  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 118

    Waive Justin Hamilton 0.5 x 75% = .38 cap hit.

  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 118

    Waive/buy out Terrence Jones 0.6 x .75 + 0.6 x.5 = 0.45 + 0.30 = 0.75 Taking full cap hit this year

  • nyacenyace Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 102

    Waive Dwight Powell 0.5 x 75% = .38 cap hit.

  • TheRobSaysTheRobSays Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 323

    Waive John Henson ... .75 * .5 = .38 this year and .5 *.5 = .25 next year

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 956

    Waive Jared Dudley

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    Waive Pascal Siakam and Ed Davis (cost is .38 for Siakam and .26 for Davis)

  • TheRobSaysTheRobSays Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 323

    Waive Kyle Korver - will eat entire cost this year

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 173

    Waive Solomon Hill - 3M

    Cap hit of 3M.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @rockchalk said:
    Waive Solomon Hill - 3M

    Cap hit of 3M.

    The cap hit is .75M

  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 118

    Waive Andrew Bogut 4 x 75% = 3

  • nyacenyace Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 102

    Waive Cameron Payne at no cost

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @nyace said:
    Waive Cameron Payne at no cost

    It costs you 75% of his salary this year because you kept him on the roster for the season and nothing next year.

    You now have 1.72M in cap space.

  • nyacenyace Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 102

    Damn... ok. I'll have to reacquaint myself with the rule book

  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 118

    Waive Luol Deng 0.5 x 75% = .38

  • RocketDWMRocketDWM Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 207

    Waive Jonathon Simmons (.5 X .75 = .38 cap hit). .47 in cap room before waive. Add in .12 and I am at .59 in cap room.

  • RocketDWMRocketDWM Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 207

    Waive Andrew Bogut

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795
    edited February 28

    Waiving Joakim Noah (.86 this season, .63 next), Matthew Dellavedova (.19), and Ersan Ilyasova (.38)

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Waive Mike Muscala (0.375 hit this season).

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 956

    Waive Langston Galloway

  • silentjimsilentjim Member, Moderator, Commish - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League, League - Battle of the Sports Forums Posts: 519 mod

    Waiving Brandan Wright

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 956

    Buyout Mozgov (0.6, 0.6), taking the full hit now.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 173

    Waive Tim Frazier

    3.4 x .25 = 0.85 cap hit this year.

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 173
    edited March 16

    Big Time contract purge, buying out below players. Currently at 19.295 in cap holds, 48.00 in contracts, 7.705 is cap space.

    Dropping Rajon Rondo first: 10 x 0.75 = 7.5 cap hold
    Cap holds now at 26.795
    Contracts at 38.00
    Cap Space at 10.205

    Rudy Gay, buying out entire contract, taking full hit this year: (13.5 x .75 = 10.125) + (13.5 x 0.5 = 6.75) + 13.5 x 0.5 = 6.75). 10.125 + 6.75 + 6.75 = 23.625

    Cap holds now at 50.42
    Contracts at 24.5
    Cap space at 0.08

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    And you guys thought spending 50M on two players was bad..

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Waive Tony Allen

  • daseindasein Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 956
  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736
  • jb510jb510 Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 118

    Waive/buy out Monta Ellis (2.7 x .75 = 2.03 ) +(2.7 x .5 = 1.35) = 3.38
    Taking full cap hit this year.

    Waive/buy out Sergio Rodriguez (0.6 x .75 = .45) + (0.6 x .5 = 0.3) = 0.75
    Taking full cap hit this year.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    Buyout Michael Carter-Williams 0.75 * 1.05 + 0.5 * 0.95 = 1.2625
    Taking full cap hit this year
    Remaining cap = 1.24 + 1.05 - 1.2625 = 1.0275

    Buyout Kay Felder 0.75 * 0.5 = 0.375
    Taking full cap hit this year (note: future years are unexercised option so 0 cost)
    Remaining cap = 1.0275 + 0.5 - 0.375 = 1.1525

    Buyout Wesley Johson 0.75 * 0.5 = 0.375
    Taking full cap hit this year
    Remaining cap = 1.1525 + 0.5 - 0.375 = 1.2775

    Buyout Marcin Gortat 0.75 * 5.78 + 0.5 * 5.22 = 6.945
    Taking full cap hit this year
    Remaining cap = 1.2775 + 5.78 - 6.945 = 0.1125

    Note: Not sure of the exact rules on this, but posting after Gortat and Carter-Willliams games today are done but before the last game of the day (last day of the fantasy season) has completed.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    Doesn't really matter I suppose, but to avoid any future confusion I dropped the 4 players above...

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Am I wrong here thinking this math does not add up at all? From what I see you started the day with 1.24M free cap available, correct? Buying out a player means you eat 75% of their current contract and 50% of remaining seasons, meaning if you want to eat all of MCW's contract you would need to eat an additional 1.2625 this year, which you don't have space for. Not sure why you are adding his 1.05 salary this year, then subtracting the 1.2625. Also, I don't believe you can automatically consider Felder's remaining team option years as 0. These are team options which you can exercise or not in the offseason, but as far as this season goes they are dedicated money, which if you wanted to buyout, you would have to eat them this year as per standard buyout rules. Can one of the rule board members chime in here, because as I see it, all of these buyouts are illegal except for Wesley Johnson.

    Furthermore, I'm not sure if we have ruled on this before, but for sure we should not be allowed to drop a player on the same day he has played a game for us, and also, there shouldn't be a real-time schedule that we can make moves after one game has played, but before another game has finished like this. In my opinion once the first game has started on the day, all rosters should be locked until the following day. Assuming DaRuhl had the cap space to make these moves (which I don't believe he did), he essentially can use these players on the last day of the championship matchup, then drop them to save cap space for next season. If this is legal, it's a loophole that doesn't reflect the real NBA in any way.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    Can answer most of these, not all of them.

    1) 1.24 is where I start. However, when I buyout MCW for 1.2625, I don't have to pay his current year of 1.05 anymore. So my space goes up by 1.05 and down by 1.2625. I believe these happen simultaneously. If they don't, I should be able to re-order the transactions (and perhaps throw on a few additional waivers) for it to all still work. But the rules are definitely clear that you don't carry the buyout cost and the cost of the player that year.

    2) I inquired about the team option before the start of the year. Look in the rules discussion thread from October. I figured I'd want to do this eventually.

    3) We said we can still buyout contracts before the end of the fantasy season, which I did. I don't think we have a rule about not being able to buyout a player on the day they have a game. I wanted to buyout before the final game ended to be clear that it was before the end of the fantasy season. But, to be honest, I think I probably didn't need to - I'd argue the fantasy season ends not at the end of the last game but at 12AM (Pacific Time) when Yahoo rolls to the next day - just like how the trade deadline (and other deadlines) work.

    4) I definitely think doing buyouts in the playoffs is cheesy and a couple/few years back pushed for and/or voted for an amendment to get rid of it. But it didn't pass.

    Hope that helps, open if I am wrong on some of these points!

    -DR

    PS Sorry I've been MIA all year... hopefully I'll be more active next year!

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @DaRuhl said:
    Can answer most of these, not all of them.

    1) 1.24 is where I start. However, when I buyout MCW for 1.2625, I don't have to pay his current year of 1.05 anymore. So my space goes up by 1.05 and down by 1.2625. I believe these happen simultaneously. If they don't, I should be able to re-order the transactions (and perhaps throw on a few additional waivers) for it to all still work. But the rules are definitely clear that you don't carry the buyout cost and the cost of the player that year.

    2) I inquired about the team option before the start of the year. Look in the rules discussion thread from October. I figured I'd want to do this eventually.

    3) We said we can still buyout contracts before the end of the fantasy season, which I did. I don't think we have a rule about not being able to buyout a player on the day they have a game. I wanted to buyout before the final game ended to be clear that it was before the end of the fantasy season. But, to be honest, I think I probably didn't need to - I'd argue the fantasy season ends not at the end of the last game but at 12AM (Pacific Time) when Yahoo rolls to the next day - just like how the trade deadline (and other deadlines) work.

    4) I definitely think doing buyouts in the playoffs is cheesy and a couple/few years back pushed for and/or voted for an amendment to get rid of it. But it didn't pass.

    Hope that helps, open if I am wrong on some of these points!

    -DR

    PS Sorry I've been MIA all year... hopefully I'll be more active next year!

    Here's the deal, your math was absolutely correct. But considering all the drops wouldn't take effect until the offseason(Monday), you missed the in season deadline for add drops by a day. Plus, as I stated above, this sets a bad precedent for the league(to use guys the last day in the finals while improving your offseason cap space at the same time).

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Hang on here. Buying out a player means you are eating 75% of the current salary, plus 50% of all remaining years, meaning if MCW is (1.05, 0.95) then instead of paying him 1.05 this year, you eat 1.2625. You don't get the 1.05 back and then subtract the buyout cost, that makes no sense.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795
    edited April 4

    @Cap said:
    Hang on here. Buying out a player means you are eating 75% of the current salary, plus 50% of all remaining years, meaning if MCW is (1.05, 0.95) then instead of paying him 1.05 this year, you eat 1.2625. You don't get the 1.05 back and then subtract the buyout cost, that makes no sense.

    And the difference between 1.27 and 1.05 is .22. Which is the amount of cap space an owner would need to make such a transaction. Carter-Williams initial salary does not stay on the books along with his waived salary for this season. His waived salary replaces his initial salary.

    Now if you want to make a case that it's too easy to waive cheap guys like this, I'm all ears.

  • CapCap Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 736

    Ah right, sorry I was thinking he had no cap space to begin with for some reason.

    I still think buying out future team options in a current guaranteed season should result in a penalty though since options can only be decided in the proceeding offseason. And even though there's no official rule, you shouldn't be able to play a guy, and then drop him right after to save a waiver day or shed future cap space like this.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    @DVauthrin said:

    @DaRuhl said:
    Can answer most of these, not all of them.

    1) 1.24 is where I start. However, when I buyout MCW for 1.2625, I don't have to pay his current year of 1.05 anymore. So my space goes up by 1.05 and down by 1.2625. I believe these happen simultaneously. If they don't, I should be able to re-order the transactions (and perhaps throw on a few additional waivers) for it to all still work. But the rules are definitely clear that you don't carry the buyout cost and the cost of the player that year.

    2) I inquired about the team option before the start of the year. Look in the rules discussion thread from October. I figured I'd want to do this eventually.

    3) We said we can still buyout contracts before the end of the fantasy season, which I did. I don't think we have a rule about not being able to buyout a player on the day they have a game. I wanted to buyout before the final game ended to be clear that it was before the end of the fantasy season. But, to be honest, I think I probably didn't need to - I'd argue the fantasy season ends not at the end of the last game but at 12AM (Pacific Time) when Yahoo rolls to the next day - just like how the trade deadline (and other deadlines) work.

    4) I definitely think doing buyouts in the playoffs is cheesy and a couple/few years back pushed for and/or voted for an amendment to get rid of it. But it didn't pass.

    Hope that helps, open if I am wrong on some of these points!

    -DR

    PS Sorry I've been MIA all year... hopefully I'll be more active next year!

    Here's the deal, your math was absolutely correct. But considering all the drops wouldn't take effect until the offseason(Monday), you missed the in season deadline for add drops by a day. Plus, as I stated above, this sets a bad precedent for the league(to use guys the last day in the finals while improving your offseason cap space at the same time).

    That's a bit tough to swallow, to be honest, and I think I need to push back a bit.

    First, last year I waived Tim Duncan on the last day of the season and it was just fine. The year before I waived Dwyane Wade on the last day of the season, and after some discussion, it was decided that was legal as well. So if there is a bad precedent, I'd argue it's already firmly set. If we want to change a rule to prohibit, that's fine, I actually have supported that historically and I think we should.

    Second, in the rules discussion thread, this question was asked already and I believe answered. Look at the last 6-7 posts in 2016-2017 rules discussion. it seems pretty clear that we can drop on the last day of the fantasy season. I really believe the questions and answers are pretty darn clear here and I think it was reasonable of me to rely on them.

    So I'd ask this disallowance be reconsidered. I'd agree it's cheesy, but there are a number of things that people do within the rules that I find cheesy. I'm all for fixing things going forward, but not as supportive of doing it retroactively.

    Thanks and sorry for the trouble!

    -DR

  • SoTexSoTex Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 167

    I had a whole couple of paragraphs written before I realized it, but now that I've gone through and thought about it, isn't it stated that the last day to do league business for THIS season is the last day of the ACTUAL NBA regular season? I've always thought that was the case. So even though you can't make moves during our fantasy playoffs, you can NOW make any "house cleaning" moves you might want to get ready for the off-season. Anything done before the last ACTUAL game of the season would count towards THIS fantasy season. I could have sworn I had some discussions with dasein about that.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @SoTex said:
    I had a whole couple of paragraphs written before I realized it, but now that I've gone through and thought about it, isn't it stated that the last day to do league business for THIS season is the last day of the ACTUAL NBA regular season? I've always thought that was the case. So even though you can't make moves during our fantasy playoffs, you can NOW make any "house cleaning" moves you might want to get ready for the off-season. Anything done before the last ACTUAL game of the season would count towards THIS fantasy season. I could have sworn I had some discussions with dasein about that.

    The last day to make add drops was the final day of the fantasy season. It's addressed in this thread when rockchalk cut Rudy Gay.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @DaRuhl said:

    @DVauthrin said:

    @DaRuhl said:
    Can answer most of these, not all of them.

    1) 1.24 is where I start. However, when I buyout MCW for 1.2625, I don't have to pay his current year of 1.05 anymore. So my space goes up by 1.05 and down by 1.2625. I believe these happen simultaneously. If they don't, I should be able to re-order the transactions (and perhaps throw on a few additional waivers) for it to all still work. But the rules are definitely clear that you don't carry the buyout cost and the cost of the player that year.

    2) I inquired about the team option before the start of the year. Look in the rules discussion thread from October. I figured I'd want to do this eventually.

    3) We said we can still buyout contracts before the end of the fantasy season, which I did. I don't think we have a rule about not being able to buyout a player on the day they have a game. I wanted to buyout before the final game ended to be clear that it was before the end of the fantasy season. But, to be honest, I think I probably didn't need to - I'd argue the fantasy season ends not at the end of the last game but at 12AM (Pacific Time) when Yahoo rolls to the next day - just like how the trade deadline (and other deadlines) work.

    4) I definitely think doing buyouts in the playoffs is cheesy and a couple/few years back pushed for and/or voted for an amendment to get rid of it. But it didn't pass.

    Hope that helps, open if I am wrong on some of these points!

    -DR

    PS Sorry I've been MIA all year... hopefully I'll be more active next year!

    Here's the deal, your math was absolutely correct. But considering all the drops wouldn't take effect until the offseason(Monday), you missed the in season deadline for add drops by a day. Plus, as I stated above, this sets a bad precedent for the league(to use guys the last day in the finals while improving your offseason cap space at the same time).

    That's a bit tough to swallow, to be honest, and I think I need to push back a bit.

    First, last year I waived Tim Duncan on the last day of the season and it was just fine. The year before I waived Dwyane Wade on the last day of the season, and after some discussion, it was decided that was legal as well. So if there is a bad precedent, I'd argue it's already firmly set. If we want to change a rule to prohibit, that's fine, I actually have supported that historically and I think we should.

    Second, in the rules discussion thread, this question was asked already and I believe answered. Look at the last 6-7 posts in 2016-2017 rules discussion. it seems pretty clear that we can drop on the last day of the fantasy season. I really believe the questions and answers are pretty darn clear here and I think it was reasonable of me to rely on them.

    So I'd ask this disallowance be reconsidered. I'd agree it's cheesy, but there are a number of things that people do within the rules that I find cheesy. I'm all for fixing things going forward, but not as supportive of doing it retroactively.

    Thanks and sorry for the trouble!

    -DR

    You can drop on the last day. It's double dipping that is a problem. Meaning you play a guy the last day of the year in the finals then cut him that night to save cap space. If he played in your lineup in the last day of the fantasy season, then he stays with you into the offseason, which started Monday. When you cut Duncan last year, you weren't in the championship so it didn't matter whether you played him or not. Therefore, the drop was legal.

    And when you dropped Wade the last day of the season two years ago in the finals, you benched him that day. Which again, meant you weren't double dipping, so you were fine.

    Here's your exact quote from two seasons ago:

    I dropped Wade on the last day of the playoffs before his game that day started (albeit by 2 minutes) and benched him for that game. So I think that drop is clean.

    Sorry, but that's different than using both MCW and Gortat on the last day of the season, then cutting them later that night after you already used them in your lineup.

    You chose to play them on Sunday, that means they finished the playoffs on your roster as far as I'm concerned.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    OK, I take your point. Well played on digging up my quote. :-)

    And, while I'd admit it's frustrating, I can live with this interpretation of the rules.

    As long it is applied consistently going forward.

    To be clear, what I mean by that is that a precedent is being set that you are not allowed to drop a player on the same day you played them in a game. This will need to be applied consistently going forward, including situations where a manager wants to drop a player to be under cap to make a bid (in-season of course), or wants to drop a player to make room on their roster to pick up another, or make room for a traded player, etc. etc. If the interpretation in my situation is the drop is that my drop is effective the next day, that needs to be the interpretation for all drops. No double dipping in any case.

    Rules-folk, is that fair and reasonable? And, should it be included in the rules for sake of clarity? I don't think this is a rule that we have enforced in the past - or if it is, I haven't been aware of it.

    I'd also note that (for example):

    On 3/20, JB posted drops for Monta Ellis and Sergio Rodriguez, both of whom he played that day.
    On 3/16, Cap posted a drop for Tony Allen, who he played that day.
    On 3/5, dasein posted a drop for Mozgov, who he played that day.
    On 2/27, davauthrin posted drops for Ilyasova and Delledova, both of whom he played that day.

    I didn't check through drops back further than that, but under the interpretation I'm hearing here, all of these were illegal double dips, correct?

    Sorry again to be difficult. But if I'm being honest this double dip interpretation seems pretty new to me. And I think this new interpretation will create a lot of issues going forward, unless it is going to be only applied in this one case, which I would find challenging.

    Thanks and sorry again!

    -DR

  • rockchalkrockchalk Member, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 173

    Simple solution to this going forward, same-day adds and drops. If a player was played during that league day, he can't be dropped.

    As far as this current situation, I am not smart enough to figure it out.

    Hopefully my dumping of Rondo and Gay didn't break the league.

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795
    edited April 5

    Double-dipping in and of itself isn't a problem, so none of those examples were illegal acts by owners. The issue is doing it the last day for add drops, then claiming you want the drops to be classified under in season rules. At that point, the drops fall under offseason rules.

    To make an NBA analogy of what you are trying to do:

    You gave MCW and Gortat minutes in game 7 of the finals, but you want to cut them that night and avoid paying them their team option to buy out their contract for next season. As cap said earlier, that would never happen.

    Once MCW and Gortat's games started the last day of the fantasy season and they were in your lineup, you willingly chose to forgo the right to drop them and receive in-season cap benefits. It really isn't that complicated.

  • DaRuhlDaRuhl Member, League - Heroes Keeper League, League - Salary Cap League Posts: 445

    NBA analogies can be tricky due to lots of counterfactuals. But as best I can tell, actually what you said is completely legal under NBA rules. Often times, if contracts are non-guaranteed, players there is a guarantee date during the offseason. But the NBA appears to be relatively clear that it rolls forward to the next year at the beginning of the July Moratorium (long after the end of the season). So up until July 1st you'd be able to execute a waiver/buyout process in the NBA still using that season's contract and terms, even if the NBA season had ended. In many seasons, there are a small handful of folks waived after the season and before July 1 (although to be fair generally they have non-guaranteed contracts for the following year). That said, there are always technical differences between our league and the NBA, so I'm not going to argue that this supports my point (in particular, there's not a great NBA parallel to our 75%/50% buyout rule).

    I agree that "double-dipping" is not the key issue, although it was raised at some points as the issue, so I felt I should point out that it had happened pretty often. I didn't intend to single out particular managers, I just went through the most recent dozen waivers or so.

    Could I ask that you address the other point I made:

    "Second, in the rules discussion thread, this question was asked already and I believe answered. Look at the last 6-7 posts in 2016-2017 rules discussion. it seems pretty clear that we can drop on the last day of the fantasy season. I really believe the questions and answers are pretty darn clear here and I think it was reasonable of me to rely on them."

    The posts are quite short, so it won't take very long to read them. Clearly in hindsight, I should have raised this question before I proceeded. But, in good faith, I thought I was on very solid ground given the questions and answers in those posts (which I reviewed before proceeding) combined with the fact that dropping a player on the same day you play them has never been raised as an issue.

    Thanks!

    -DR

  • DVauthrinDVauthrin Member, League - Bonanza Keeper League, Commish - Salary Cap League Posts: 795

    @DaRuhl said:
    NBA analogies can be tricky due to lots of counterfactuals. But as best I can tell, actually what you said is completely legal under NBA rules. Often times, if contracts are non-guaranteed, players there is a guarantee date during the offseason. But the NBA appears to be relatively clear that it rolls forward to the next year at the beginning of the July Moratorium (long after the end of the season). So up until July 1st you'd be able to execute a waiver/buyout process in the NBA still using that season's contract and terms, even if the NBA season had ended. In many seasons, there are a small handful of folks waived after the season and before July 1 (although to be fair generally they have non-guaranteed contracts for the following year). That said, there are always technical differences between our league and the NBA, so I'm not going to argue that this supports my point (in particular, there's not a great NBA parallel to our 75%/50% buyout rule).

    I agree that "double-dipping" is not the key issue, although it was raised at some points as the issue, so I felt I should point out that it had happened pretty often. I didn't intend to single out particular managers, I just went through the most recent dozen waivers or so.

    Could I ask that you address the other point I made:

    "Second, in the rules discussion thread, this question was asked already and I believe answered. Look at the last 6-7 posts in 2016-2017 rules discussion. it seems pretty clear that we can drop on the last day of the fantasy season. I really believe the questions and answers are pretty darn clear here and I think it was reasonable of me to rely on them."

    The posts are quite short, so it won't take very long to read them. Clearly in hindsight, I should have raised this question before I proceeded. But, in good faith, I thought I was on very solid ground given the questions and answers in those posts (which I reviewed before proceeding) combined with the fact that dropping a player on the same day you play them has never been raised as an issue.

    Thanks!

    -DR

    Once the NBA finals ends, the offseason begins. A team would not be able to negotiate an in season buyout with guys that have either player or team options. There's a reason that happens in-season by a set deadline, and those players must sign with new teams by a set deadline to even be playoff eligible. As for non guaranteed contracts, there's a designated offseason date by which a team must decide whether to waive the player or guarantee their salary for next season. And that process starts after the finals ends.

    Second, I've already addressed the fact that yes, you can drop guys through the last day of our fantasy season.

    What you can't do is use the player the last day, then cut them that night after their game starts and be able to treat that drop as an in-season drop. Such drops would fall under offseason rules, and for our purposes, you will need to pay the 25% buyout fee for MCW and Gortat.

This discussion has been closed.